11th January 2002 6.00pm at the Georgian Group Lecture Room, 6 Fitzroy Square, London W1

Present:
Mette de Hamill
Christopher de Hamill
Sarah Narcross-Robinson
Jennifer A Gill - UKIC Member
Roy S. Thompson - Accredited UKIC Member
Joy Hulning
Ian Crick - Accredited UKIC Member
Michael G. Smith - UKIC Member
David A J Luard - UKIC Member
Tim Martin
Louise Henderson - UKIC Member
David Gibson
Tone Olstad
Jon Brenne
Helen Hughes - Accredited UKIC Member
Elli Yaenet Smithoinen
Elsbeth Geldhof
Mike Bidnell
Roger Mears
Christopher S. Woods - Chair of UKIC
Abigail Kessel
Richard W. Rogers - UKIC Member
Lisa Oestreicher - UKIC Member
Janet Brough
Christine Sitwell - Accredited UKIC Member
Allyson Mcdermott - Accredited UKIC Member
Andrew D McGarry - UKIC Member
E A Prawer

Apologies:
Jamie Coath
Alan Gardner
Elizabeth Hirst- Accredited UKIC Member
Noelle Streeton
Peter Riddington
Sarah Staniforth - Accredited UKIC Member
Sharon Manitta -UKIC Member
David Leigh - Executive Director UKIC

Matters Discussed:

1. Introduction

An informal reception, greetings and a short introduction to the evenings events was given by Allyson McDermott and Helen Hughes. The creation of the new section had been approved at the AGM held in July 25th 2001. Both speakers outlined the issues which had inspired the creation of the new UKIC Historic Interiors Section and the range of problems which they felt were hampering the conservation of the historic interior.

2. Opening Address by Chris Woods - Chair of UKIC

In his opening address Chris Woods welcomed the somewhat timely creation of the new Historic Interiors Section. He remarked that he had recently been in discussion with the Charities Commission about the role and purpose of UKIC. The creation of the new section demonstrates that UKIC is not just solely concerned with the education of conservators but is also actively involved in the protection of the cultural heritage. While the existing UKIC sections promote particular conservation disciplines, techniques and materials, the focus of the new section is primarily the preservation of the historic interior. Chris Woods suggested that now was the time to move away from the rather false distinction between moveable and immovable objects and take a wider view of the historic interior and promote the conservation of the whole ensemble. He hoped that the new section would attract a wide range existing members and attract new members to join UKIC. He also hoped that the section would improve communication and the exchange of ideas between different conservation specialisms. Chris Woods ended his address by stressing his support for the new Historic Interiors Group which he felt would be a valuable addition to UKIC.

3. Problems and solutions

A range of conservation specialists presented their personal view of the problems facing the conservation of historic interiors

Tina Sitwell - Advisor on the Conservation of Painted Surfaces, The National Trust

Tina Sitwell of the National Trust gave an illustrated talk outlining aspects of the National Trust’s approach to coping with change in the historic interior. The research projects currently being undertaken include:

• the investigation of 3D imaging to illustrate the changes within the historic interior
• the controlled removal of selected decorative schemes in interiors using solvents
• investigating appropriate varnishes for use in interiors and exteriors
• determining survival of lead based paint finishes on exteriors
• the development of data-base to record research findings and promote the exchange of information
• Tina welcomed the creation of the new section as a means of developing the use of multidisciplinary teams.

Tina also stressed how important it was to maintain continued discussions with conservation consultants throughout the duration of all works contracts.

David Gibson - Conservation Architect

As a conservation architect David Gibson highlighted three areas for consideration.
1. Sourcing the wide range of conservation skills often required for interiors projects
Projects often involve the conservation of a wide range of materials and David is constantly looking to commission conservators with appropriate skills to carry out this work. He recently had to locate a specialist who could conserve an ‘historic’ electrical installation. Could the new section provide discussion of this type of problem?

2. Range of contractual skills required for interiors projects
Historic interiors project may fall under the direction of a main contractor or project managers with little experience of historic interiors. The conservation architect often acts as lead consultant to orchestrate the different specialists. David stressed the importance of gathering together all the conservators and craftsmen involved with the project at the earliest stage of the project

3. Range of significant historic buildings
Islington for example has only three Grade I listed buildings but has a lot of interesting historic interiors. How do we ensure that wide range of skills need to recognise and conserve these interiors?

Roy Thompson - The Leather Conservation Centre

Roy Thompson gave a highly entertaining presentation entitled ‘The Finishing Touch’ which outlined the problems he had recreating embossed and gilded leather library shelf trims. Despite the specialised nature of this project Roy highlighted a wide range of problems which are shared by other conservators working in the historic interior. Indeed after his talk he claimed that he had never lectured to ‘such a sea of nodding heads’.

Commercially available leather library shelf trims have a flat ‘plastic’ finish and lack detail. Roy demonstrated this by handing around samples of modern commercial trimming and fragments of an original 19th century trimming. After a careful examination of the original fragment and much trial and error in leather dying, cutting embossing and gilding the conservators had acquired a specialist knowledge of the materials and techniques and were able to replicated the original 19th century shelf trim. They were able to recognise such subtleties of technique such as the imprinting of calfskin to imitate goat skin. This feature was only a small part of a massive project but was clearly an important detail in the recreation of a Victorian library.

Roy used this case-study to illustrate the need to gain an understanding of the materials and techniques used to create the historic interiors before we can set about any conserving or re-presentation.

Tone Olstad - Conservator, NIKU (Foundation for Nature Research and Cultural Heritage Research)

Tone Olstad as an architectural paint researcher hoped that this discipline would feature in the new section. She also hoped that the group would be a focal point for may different experts working within the historic interior. In her introduction Tone considered the problem of defining the historic interior as it includes the structure of the building, a variety of surface finishes and contents. She felt that if the section aimed to protect the historic interior it had to be open to all those involved in historic buildings not just conservators.

She then illustrated various points with reference to a major project, the conservation of an eighteenth century country house, which she has been involved with during the last nine years. The project team identified four main phases of alterations to the building.. The percentage of the elements and decorative finishes surviving from each phase was illustrated on a pie chart. For the presentation of the interiors it was decided that the most recent architectural element would determine the phase of the room’s representation. On the completion of the project a second pie chart was made to establish how much of the earlier finishes had been retained and the area of new decorative finishes which had been added to the interior. The need to inform visitors to the house about the nature of the finishes they were looking at was an important issue for the project team. Monitoring of the building revealed that the early paint finishes had not been adversely effected by climate but theit was possible that the newly added paint could cause problems.

A great deal of new work has been carried out in the Royal Castle at Oslo. Tone questioned how the restored building should be maintained and asked ‘How do make a distinction between ordinary maintenance and conservation?’

Jon Braenne - Research Scientist and Painting Conservator NIKU (Foundation for Nature Research and Cultural Heritage Research)

In his address Jon remarked that although we have a long tradition of caring for our listed building they are at risk because there are a lot of amateur or ill-trained conservators are carrying out very bad work. He cited the successful conference held in Ottawa in May 2000 ‘Symposium 2000’ which highlighted the complexity of the historic interior. In contrast he mentioned the recent conference held in Amsterdam in September 2001 ‘Manifestatie Historisch Interieur’ which presented the historic interior as a backdrop for collections rather than an interesting subject in its own right. Research standards have improved dramatically and paint should be seen as a material that can clarify many aspects of the building’s development and alteration, and not just a final colour. Jon like many of the previous speakers stressed the need for collaboration and team-work in all phases of the project. He ended his talk with an observation that the creation of the new section was a golden opportunity to stress the importance of the historic interior . All too often the historic interior gets lost between the discussion of the conservation of the fabric and the contents. He hoped that conservators in other countries would be able the join this section to facilitate the exchange of research findings.

Elsbeth Geldhof - Conservator, Decorative Historic Interiors Stichling Restauratie Atelier, Maastricht, Holland

The Maasticht conservation centre offers an unique course in the conservation of historic interiors. The Netherlands has not got a long tradition of the detailed material examination of decorative finishes but does have a long tradition of art historic analysis. Elsbeth that this may explain the focus of the recent conference in Amsterdam. However there is a growing interest in understanding historic interiors and the reconstruction of historic surfaces in the Netherlands. The Rijksdienst voor de Monumentenzorg - RDMZ (The Netherlands Department for Conservation) is promoting the use of architectural paint research and historic interiors experts in an attempt to bridge the gap between building analysts and art historians. The RDMZ targets owners of listed buildings and by providing information and grants hopes to improve the quality of the work carried out. In the past building archaeologists were often responsible for destruction of important evidence but a more sensitive approach is now being taken. Conservation architects are becoming aware of the potential of new building research methods.

Elsbeth echoed Jon Braenne’s hope that the new section would be open to foreign members as there was not a similar group in the Netherlands.

4. Open discussion

The points raised by the speakers prompted an enthusiastic open discussion. It was generally agreed that the new section could have an important role in several areas:

• Contracts and project management
• How to manage conservation projects - risk assessments
• Quantity surveyors and conservation
• Health & safety on site
• Improved communications between conservation disciplines
• Communications between conservators and other disciplines working on site
• Improving PPG15
• Tendering processes

It was agreed that the new section should aim to organise a one-day conference to discuss these issues to be held in Spring 2003. This would fulfill the UKIC requirements for the creation of a new section (4.5.5. UKIC Regulations) and be an opportunity to hold the Section’s AGM.

5. How to join the new section

Helen Hughes outlined the types of membership available (for full membership details consult UKIC Members Handbook, pp22-24). To become a member of the Historic Interiors Section one has to join UKIC.

FULL MEMBERSHIP - is open to professional conservators - £102.00 (There are reduced rates for unwaged, student and low income members). Full members will receive all UKIC publications which include Grapevine (six per year), Conservation News (three issues per year) and The Conservator and have full voting rights

SUBSCRIBING MEMBER - This level of membership is available to people whose main occupation is not directly concerned with conservation but who are interested in the discipline. Subscribing members will receive Conservation News ( three per year) It does not include voting rights. - £47.00

To comply with UKIC regulations the section will needs to attract a minimum of twenty voting members.

A member may become a member of any number of Sections. On the application form, an applicant must indicate those Sections which he/she wishes to join. A member may join one Section without further payment. A member may join further sections on payment of supplementary subscriptions.

6. Election of the Provisional Section Committee

Those willing to stand for the Section committee made themselves known and were approved by a show of hands of all attending the meeting.

7. Future events

A Section Committee meeting would be arranged for March to devise a forward plan and budget for submission to the UKIC Council before the next AGM. The Section will also need to produce copy for UKIC publications and submitt a report to the UKIC Council by 20th July 2002.

The committee will also need to discuss proposed events such as specialist visits to conservation projects for Section members and the proposed 2003 Conference.

The meeting closed at 9.00 pm.

Minutes by Helen Hughes